Everyone please chime in here

[Duster]

Quote: Originally Posted by InDaRed2

08 here with drain issues. I put in neutral, switch thumb switch off then turn key off. Usually this works all the time but it sat for a couple months in the shed with temps below 10 degrees for a few weeks straight. Needles to say the battery lost enough juice to not start, charged it up and its fine now.

Couple months = drain would be pretty normal in my mind.

I killed mine today sitting on the road talking to the neighbor.
Not sure how... could have been the headlights on since my 2 year old was on in front of me.

Lucky I was on freshly scraped pavement to roll it off.


My headlights sure do stay on with the kill off.
I guess that is normal?

Need to look at the diagram again before I go back to slinging snow.

[bouncesofftrees]

I have never had a drain issue ever to this date. and also have never had a prob like others with the roll over sensor either.

[Duster]

Quote: Originally Posted by bouncesofftrees

I have never had a drain issue ever to this date. and also have never had a prob like others with the roll over sensor either.

Welcome to the site... and thanks very much for your post.

[Motsch788]

'08 450R

Always shut off in neutral with the Key. Never had a problem, started right up last week in -10F weather after sitting a month, not a problem here!

[Goon riding new guy]

I have an 08.
Never had the problem except when I made the mistake of leaving the ignition on while heading to the track with it on a trailer.
I have a tether kill switch and always leave it connected. I removed the original kill/ light switch. I always park it with the key off and it doesn't seem to matter if I leave it in gear or not.

[greenbeast03]

08, turn key off leave in gear never any prob.

[nkeen07]

Quote: Originally Posted by Duster

OK... while this continues... help me understand some things about the thumb kill switch.

With switches there are Normally Open and Normally Closed switches.
I don't know the difference, but apparently most other machines have a Normally Open switch.
The KFX has a Normally Closed.

Best I understand it... and I could be wrong... is that with NC, current is flowing through the switch when on, if supplied to it? And turning it off would open the contacts and cut the current flow.

So I assume the thumb kill cuts the power to these two things?
And I guess power to the headlights and starter button too...?

There is a brown wire... and I would assume that is the hot wire?
Then there is a yellow/red wire that goes to the coil and the fuel pump relay.

Here is a picture... thanks to knaffie...
The colors are confusing...



But in the end, I have trouble understanding what "leaving it on" is doing to band-aid our problem?

I assume we are leaving power on going to...
Coil
Fuel Pump Relay
Starter Button
Headlights

But with the switch off, there shouldn't be power supplied to it in the first place right?



I'm dumb as chit when it comes to all these wires... but all I can think of is that some how we must be grounding an open or short "the back way"... through the headlight ground wire or something by leaving the kill switch on?

An open/short on the hot wire going to the key switch?
Getting grounded back through the kill switch into the headlight ground wire or something?

For those who don't understand open and closed, I'll use an analogy: A switch works like a draw bridge. When it's open (lifted), no cars can go across the bridge. With the switch, an open is when the terminals aren't make connection which doesn't allow current to flow. When the bridge goes down (closes), cars can go across again. In the switch, the contacts touch allowing continuity of current.

I'm not 100% sure as I don't have access to a wiring schematic at the moment, but I can kinda of explain the function here. As you said...either naturally open or closed. Since ours is naturally closed, current is able to continue to the fuel pump and coil while in the natural state. When the switch is flipped to off, it simply doesn't allow this current to travel to these anymore. It acts as an open.

If the current draw is with the switch in the off position, you need to trace back and any circuit element before this cut off is causing the issue. If the draw is with the switch in the off position trace forward of the switch and the draw would have to be in the fuel pump or coil. HOWEVER, this thoughts process all goes down the drain when you consider what happens when you turn the key off. Turning the key off cuts power to ALL circuit elements after the key [key switch is naturally open, closes when turned]...so any drain that you guys are getting would have to be before you get to the ignition switch. There's where you need to start. I don't think there's really anything between the battery and the switch...so my thought is the cells in the batteries that you guys have are just really crappy and won't hold a charge...but then again the kill switch and gear position issues wouldn't make any sense.

[Duster]

Quote: Originally Posted by nkeen07

If the current draw is with the switch in the off position, you need to trace back and any circuit element before this cut off is causing the issue. If the draw is with the switch in the off position trace forward of the switch and the draw would have to be in the fuel pump or coil. HOWEVER, this thoughts process all goes down the drain when you consider what happens when you turn the key off. Turning the key off cuts power to ALL circuit elements after the key [key switch is naturally open, closes when turned]...so any drain that you guys are getting would have to be before you get to the ignition switch. There's where you need to start. I don't think there's really anything between the battery and the switch...so my thought is the cells in the batteries that you guys have are just really crappy and won't hold a charge...but then again the kill switch and gear position issues wouldn't make any sense.

OK then, so I am not totally retarded in my thought process.

The draw has to be on the "W" wire before the key switch... or a bad key switch... but a bad key switch does not make a lot of sense.


Here is the list of things on the "W" wire according to the schematic...
(do not know if they are before/after the key switch as I have not physically traced)


Battery / Starter Relay to Starter motor / ECU / Fuel Pump Fuse to Fuel Pump Relay to Fuel Pump / Fan Fuse to Fan Relay to Fan Motor / Regulator-Rectifier / Key Switch

The item in bold is the only common thing to the kill switch.

The "Y/R" wire from the kill switch goes to the coil and fuel pump relay.

Does that supply enough info for you guys smarter at this than me to draw a possible conclusion?


In my mind that could be a clue, but on the other hand, I think about all the wire length that could be arcing/grounding on the "W" wire and all the things it goes to. Then I'm scratching my head again.

[Duster]

Following the Fuel Pump Relay to Fuel Pump line of thinking....

The fuel pump relay has 4 wires.

W/BK - Fused power from the W wire
W/R - Relay to Fuel Pump + / Fuel Injector / AND to ECU ~ Battery Monitor (wtf is that!?)
Y/R - From kill switch
BK/R - to ECU ~ Fuel Pump Relay Signal


Now... Kill switch on I guess allows power out of the relay to the fuel pump + / Fuel Injector / ECU ~ battery monitor?
What would that have to do with stopping drain???

[nkeen07]

Quote: Originally Posted by Duster

Quote: Originally Posted by nkeen07

If the current draw is with the switch in the off position, you need to trace back and any circuit element before this cut off is causing the issue. If the draw is with the switch in the off position trace forward of the switch and the draw would have to be in the fuel pump or coil. HOWEVER, this thoughts process all goes down the drain when you consider what happens when you turn the key off. Turning the key off cuts power to ALL circuit elements after the key [key switch is naturally open, closes when turned]...so any drain that you guys are getting would have to be before you get to the ignition switch. There's where you need to start. I don't think there's really anything between the battery and the switch...so my thought is the cells in the batteries that you guys have are just really crappy and won't hold a charge...but then again the kill switch and gear position issues wouldn't make any sense.

OK then, so I am not totally retarded in my thought process.

The draw has to be on the "W" wire before the key switch... or a bad key switch... but a bad key switch does not make a lot of sense.


Here is the list of things on the "W" wire according to the schematic...
(do not know if they are before/after the key switch as I have not physically traced)


Battery / Starter Relay to Starter motor / ECU / Fuel Pump Fuse to Fuel Pump Relay to Fuel Pump / Fan Fuse to Fan Relay to Fan Motor / Regulator-Rectifier / Key Switch

The item in bold is the only common thing to the kill switch.

The "Y/R" wire from the kill switch goes to the coil and fuel pump relay.

Does that supply enough info for you guys smarter at this than me to draw a possible conclusion?


In my mind that could be a clue, but on the other hand, I think about all the wire length that could be arcing/grounding on the "W" wire and all the things it goes to. Then I'm scratching my head again.

I'm trying to draw it up mentally while I think back on my winter build and the little time I spent wiring. Battery in series w/the relay which is in series w/the starter (relay acts like a switch as well). Now...there's no possible way that all of those components on the W wire are getting power w/the switch off, so they must be after the switch and get power when it is closed. I really wish I had a schematic that I could read. The one I have in the PDF of the service manual isn't readable.

Any chance you could send me the one you're looking at or post it as a jpg on here...?